Ajax

[desirea]

Here's what bothered me about all the negative comments about upgrading to 3.5.

How serious do you think you'd be taken if you could only develop web apps in technology that is 1-2 versions back? Walking around saying "I develop web applications in PHP3 or PHP4 "

The current release is PHP5 and that's what people in the industry are moving towards. PHP3 or PHP4 isn't going to get you much respect and if you're subcontracting.. not much work. You'd get left behind.

As ASP.NET developers we don't want to be left behind.

[Brangwyn]

I don't personally see any negative comments, cautious sensible approaches I would say. Without question every new release of a product brings about implementation issues, you have to determine how that product will fit in your own server environment and whether or not it could pose any potential risk to the rest of your customer base. You can't just go installing a brand new server technology becuase it's been released, I don't personally go for the but hostxyz is running it so why can't we argument either, everyone's situation is different.

If you're a serious developer and want to offer all the bells and whistles then go with a bleeding edge host that likes to beta test new products, or just get yourself a cheap dedicated server of your own.

[desirea]

The key is to be reasonable in staying up with the times Brangwyn..

Do you honestly think Vortech has been reasonable with their lag time on Asp.net 2.0? Is this what we have to wait for with 3.5?

[Brangwyn]

Based on the requests I had for .NET2 support which was very few, but there certainly were a few that asked repeatedly (I have quite a lot of windows developers including some .NET MVP's) I would honestly have to say yes I do think they were reasonable, particularly considering Vortech's version of HSphere doesn't even fully support it, they've actually gone and done it anyway to keep me, you and the other people who asked for it happy.

I'm certainly not saying they couldn't have been faster in upgrading becuase they probably could have, but I don't regret their decision not to be first off the block in supporting it either.

Maybe I'm just slow too as it was only a month or two before Vortech implemented it that I finished testing and configuring it for my own HELM Resellers and at this stage I don't plan to implement .NET3/3.5 for at least 3-4 months quite possibly closer to 6 months.

I want to see what new problems it brings to a shared environment first and hopefully learn by other peoples problems so that when I do roll it out to my customers they have a trouble free experience .. fingers crossed.

[commongenius]

Originally Posted by Brangwyn

Based on the requests I had for .NET2 support which was very few, but there certainly were a few that asked repeatedly (I have quite a lot of windows developers including some .NET MVP's) I would honestly have to say yes I do think they were reasonable, particularly considering Vortech's version of HSphere doesn't even fully support it, they've actually gone and done it anyway to keep me, you and the other people who asked for it happy.

I'm certainly not saying they couldn't have been faster in upgrading becuase they probably could have, but I don't regret their decision not to be first off the block in supporting it either.

Maybe I'm just slow too as it was only a month or two before Vortech implemented it that I finished testing and configuring it for my own HELM Resellers and at this stage I don't plan to implement .NET3/3.5 for at least 3-4 months quite possibly closer to 6 months.

Lets not mince words. Vortech was far from simply "not [the] first off the block in supporting" .NET 2.0. .NET 2.0 was released in November 2005; Vortech did not support .NET 2.0 websites until March 2007. 16 months is not just being cautious, its negligently slow. This has nothing to do with comparing Vortech to other hosting sites; its about the expectations of customers. And passing the buck to PSoft is a cop-out; I am buying services from Vortech, not PSoft, and if Vortech cannot offer a service that I need, it doesn't really matter what their reasons are.

As has been said on this forum many times recently, running a hosting service is hard; otherwise we would all be doing it. But the fact is that we are not all running a hosting service; Vortech is. And since they are, and since they are asking me to pay money for that service, I expect them to provide me with the service they need. If they can't, I have to find someone who can. If Vortech is ok with losing .NET customers because they are not willing to support .NET releases in a timely manner, that is their choice to make; just as it is my choice to buy services from someone who is willing to give me that support.

Getting back to specifics...if you were to release .NET 3.5 support 4 months from now, that would make it about 6 months after its release. I think that is a little slow, but not terribly unreasonable. But that is completely different from Vortech's timescale. .NET 2.0 took 16 months; .NET 3.0 has been out for 14 months and I have heard nothing about it being supported (DESPITE the fact that it does not include a new runtime or even a new version of the framework libraries, meaning that its implementation requirements are significantly less than .NET 2.0); and there is no telling how long it will take to get to .NET 3.5 (which also does not include a new runtime, although it does include new versions of the framework libraries). Frankly, I simply cannot understand how anyone can look at that timeline and think that it is reasonable for a professional commercial hosting service.

[Brangwyn]

I think your forgetting a major part of why they didn't upgrade sooner. The version of HSphere being used does not support it, the version they have still doesn't support it fully either, and if your asking why didn't they upgrade HSphere sooner then perhaps you've not been here long enough to remember some of the fiasco's we've had in the past with upgrades.

As I recall also Vortech lost a couple of senior Windows techs who were working on the upgrades initially and that then set things back further.

[opt2004]

Two questions:

1) Why did they lose two senior Windows Techs?

2) Why did they replace them with majorly unqualified techs?

[Danl]

Originally Posted by opt2004

Two questions:
1) Why did they lose two senior Windows Techs?
2) Why did they replace them with majorly unqualified techs?

What? We haven't lost anybody in a long time, keep the messages about ajax.

[Brangwyn]

The reference is to staff that left well over a year ago, Probably around the time you joined I think, August, November 06 some time around there.

[antic]

Forgive me, but I'm intentionally being a bit provocative here. AJAX is not a .NET control.

If this thread is about AJAX, and its implementation in a .NET environment, why are people worrying about .NET2, 3, or 3.5 implementation on servers, when AJAX (i.e. that thing people have done with JavaScript and server-side code before .NET was a gleam in Bill's shorts and indeed before it was even called AJAX) does not depend on .NET in the slightest?

If this thread is really about AJAX in a .NET environment, then discuss that and help some people. If it's really about when Vortech will upgrade to .NET 3, then change the title.

Originally Posted by desirea

Antic
In .NET there are 2 types of controls. HTML controls with the runat="server" attribute and an ID to get access and there are server controls. Server controls are very powerful. .NET comes with many prebuilt server controls. You can also build new server controls through inheritance and coding. AJAX.Net supports prebuilt server controls with AJAX already enabled on them. AJAX.NET sets up all the Javascript for these prebuilt controls. You can of course subclass them or build your own.

[desirea]

AJAX.NET is a set of classes that implement .NET server controls utilizing AJAX technology. It comes with an installer for the server so that these server controls become available to the .Net developers. The whole reason any of us want it on the servers is because it gives us a lot of quick power into AJAX. Each of those server controls can be extended or new ones implemented based on the AJAX.NET library. It took Vortech ages to install this for .Net developers. It's already included in the next versions of .Net. This was actually mentioned during the thread. Fat lot of good having it in the next version of the framework when Vortech takes so long to upgrade their Windows Servers.
The reason this thread went off just that topic is because Vortech took so long ... 16 months to get ASP.NET 2.0 out the door. It isn't acceptable to wait over a year for a technology to be implemented. My question about 3.5 etc. is whether we're going to wait until the next version comes out before we see that one here.
While PHP was complacent at PHP 4 for years and only just upgraded to PHP5 with a heavy push from the PHP implementation, that isn't the way Microsoft works. Its made PHP developers rather complacent about upgrades. That same complacency isn't really appropriate in the MS world.

[desirea]

Originally Posted by Brangwyn

I think your forgetting a major part of why they didn't upgrade sooner. The version of HSphere being used does not support it, the version they have still doesn't support it fully either, and if your asking why didn't they upgrade HSphere sooner then perhaps you've not been here long enough to remember some of the fiasco's we've had in the past with upgrades.

As I recall also Vortech lost a couple of senior Windows techs who were working on the upgrades initially and that then set things back further.

See the below again... I completely agree with commongenius. Vortech's problems with their vendors are not my problem. My clients don't care about my problems with Vortech.. they only care that they get what they want.

Originally Posted by commongenius

And passing the buck to PSoft is a cop-out; I am buying services from Vortech, not PSoft, and if Vortech cannot offer a service that I need, it doesn't really matter what their reasons are.

[Licinio Mendes]

I cant agree more with Desirea, trying give some kicks with scripts in sql and i cant do some easy things with scrips cause of lack of functions on CP. I need to make most of my standart dbs thru CP instead of do it thru scrips.

[Clayton]

/me Gets the 'Off-topic' whip out

This thread is about AJAX, and AJAX only. If you would like to discuss ASP please make a new thread about it.

[Silverbug]

To be a technical nit picker, this thread was originally about the AJAX.net controls.

The ability to use Ajax as (and always has) been available on the vortech servers, as its not a language rather just a process.

Personally i dont actually like the ajax.net stuff, and prefer to develop with the prototype lib.