Customer protection

[somereseller]

With the recent GD downgrading scandal, I was wondering. What kind of customer protection do we have?
What if Matrix decides to go to PHP 3 because it's more secure and has less programs that runs with it. We just have to swallow or leave at once? It seems to me that a hosting company can ruin a web service business in a snap.

I find it difficult to work with companies that give features that they just take back when they feel like it. I know it's Hsphere that has problems, but maybe we could get some kind of Psoft certification then.

Anyway, is this a general trend in the hosting business against what we have no protection? It seems I was naive enough to think that we always upgrade a server.

Liv

PS
I realize that this kind of question might not please Matrix, but I'd rather prefer post here than on popular Web hosting forums that might hurt their reputation, because I'm sure tons of host would say that they never do this kind of things.

As a unix administrator I must say that having hsphere installed both makes my job easier and harder at the same time. GD 2.0 was upgraded because psoft upgraded it. Gd was downgraded because psoft downgraded it. They upgraded because they did poor testing and didn't realize it broke the software. I still have to upgrade php by hand everytime they upgrade apache on my machines because they still use php 4.1.2 I run the current version of php because you requested it and it does not remove any functionallity of the servers.

The upgrade policy is pretty much stay current with security updates and new software but not at the expense of the control panel. Sometimes i have to go with what they support no matter if I like it or not.

I am used to running my own servers and being able to install features as i see fit. Unfortuantely that will not work in any control panel environment.

[Craig_Smith]

,,and if I can elaborate on what hostnet said about running his own servers...

You could always get a dedicated server of your own and install whatever you like on it. Of course,you would have to pay for the software yourself,,and if something breaks, you have to also fix it yourself. Give me call and I'll give you a good deal if your interested, otherwise, well then your all at the mercy of H-Sphere just like we are.

[somereseller]

There is something I'm missing. I thought GD was breaking a counter, not the cp.

Hostnet's post show us Matrix's dependency towards PSoft, but it doesn't really answer my question.

Let's say I invest $20K on a new solution for a couple of customers. We test it on your servers to make sure we're ready to go. A week before launch something like this happens. Now what? The customers won't pay of course (unless we rush out to install the solution on another untested hosting company). Are we the sitting ducks? We chose not to have our own server to cut expenses, but we did not expect downgrades before launch. So are we losing $20K? Germany has strong customer protection laws. I guess some hosting companies offer SLAs or am I wrong?

I'm just asking, who takes responsabilities in this business. It surely seems that Psoft is not taking any. I guess they sell their software "as is" so you are the next one in line. Your TOS probably says that you make your best and that we cannot owe your responsible for anything. That's where we come in...
We cannot say the same thing to our customers, it's not good enough. If someone invest $20K in something. He wants to be able to use it.

When you think about it, you go to Radio Schack to buy a new stereo and two months later, the salesman comes into your place takes the CD player out and gets out. "Sorry, this was messing with the AM radio display, no more CD listening for you".

[Craig_Smith]

I will agree that you have some great points. Were not passing the blame to PSoft to make ourselves look better, its just the limitations of the software.

My point is simple, and its a fact. If you want complete control over every aspect of your hosting, you should get your own server. Most people don't even know what GD 2.0 is, let alone care if Psoft has upgraded it or not.
And, if I may state my opinion, if you really have a $20k client,, you should spend the few thousand on a dedicated server solution anyway. If your not willing to do that, then you really can't complain to anyone about some features that we include for free and yet have no control over which versions Psoft has installed or upgraded to.

As for customer protection, should we really be the ones responsible here? Everything we advertise on our sites you get and much more.
We offer ALOT of features for very little expense and most people are very happy with it. H-Sphere is about the closest thing I've seen to a dedicated solution without the extra expense. Its still in its first year or so, and we expect it to get better.

[somereseller]

I know I should get a dedicated, but it really is too expensive for my business right now. I don't have the knowledge nor the time to administrate a server, which means that it would cost me maybe $350/month minimum just to run the thing (including basic sysadmin), plus I would have to pay the setup fees and the Hsphere fees (I would still need some of Hsphere automations) and more sysadmin fees. That's a lot to start with in this fragile business. Even with some customers that pay $20k, altogether, they would agree to pay $100/month max. That's not much and they can move away whenever they want. Leaving you with an expensive server to pay for. I don't want to be in the hosting business, but I need hosting That's why I can't wait for an affordable VDS system where I could run GD 2.0, Sax, Ant, JSP, etc. I want a small set of customers I can work closely with. I'm a lab for now...

But anyway I disagree with you Craig, when you say that I cannot blame anyone for the free features that just disappear. It has nothing to do with free in my opinion. It has to do with reliability. Either you can rely on your host, either you can't. And you have the power to modify Psoft's software.

This problem showed me how vulnerable I was and I'm just discovering that no one can take the blame (which I find incredible). I could get sued here for not delivering the goods (In case I couldn't move the solution elsewhere quick enough.) It's just because I don't really sell hosting, I use it for my clients. If I write in my contract that they will have the ability to have quality thumbnails automatically and quickly generated from their admin website. I have to deliver.
This could happen again, let's say I install some DHL plugin for OCS that requires XML and that you remove it 6 months later because the cp does not like it. My customer's business closes down and I get sued. If I add to my contract that there is no warranty, nobody signs it.

Enough with examples =P.
I guess a hosting company cannot be held responsible and if one sells services, then he has to get its own server.

I agree with you about the pricing and features, but still find it unbelievable that a host can remove a feature that has been installed on request 5 months ago, just like that. I truly am amazed.

Another example...Remember HP (I think) who advertised that their DVD writer would be DVD+R or something with a simple firmware upgrade. They are being sued because they can't deliver and thus "cheated" on their customers who bought the DVD thinking it would work...


This is a long post....I just wanted to add that this discussion is here because I find it interesting to discover what is our reseller's position in this hosting world. This is not tied solely to GD 2.0 since I found a workaround for my customers. I just want to learn something.

[admin]

somereseller,

Boy you like to type way to much..

I am going to make this very simple for you..

500 users using a counter
2 users wanting GD 2.0


Hmmm.. Who do I pick???


I think this is very simple.


But besides that I have found a way to get GD 2.0 on all the servers resellers are on now I am going to take a vote.


GD 2.0 or Counter

[admin]

pick one.. This post is closed.

http://www.matrixreseller.com/forum/...=&threadid=654