Not lovin' it.

[Scientifik]

I work as the lead developer for a small online retailer. Obiously, this business relies heavily on developers, yet my boss refuses to offer basic benefits, overtime, vacation time, sick days, holiday pay, and even frequently interrupts our lunch breaks with work related tasks. I enjoy what I do, and I consider myself good at it, however I get the feeling that we're just the help. My first question is, working in California, is not providing those kind of benefits (specifically overtime) legal? And second what should I do about it?
1) Quit.
2) Talk to the boss about it.
3) Shut up because I have a good thing going and pray I don't get outsourced.
Anyone? Anyone?

[cleonard]

I believe if you are making less than $44/hour you must be paid OT for over 40 hours.

See http://www.management-advantage.com/...me-exempt.html

[generic]

u did not know this going into the position?

generally I would say if your unhapy, start looking around. IF you find better, then your set, if you dont, then at least you still have your current job.

[awen]

Definately look around. They say never stop looking, keep your resume updated, and don't be afraid to try and negotiate for the things you want. Now that you have a job, you can take up job hunting at a leisurely pace, and think about those things you want and work towards them.

Get in the mindset that YOU are doing the potiential employer a FAVOR by wanting to work for them, rather than the other way around. There are lots of good jobs out there if you look, although sometimes relocation may be required. Many employers will also help cover much of the relocation expenses, so be prepared to ask about that too.

Be careful of jumping to new jobs too frequently though, that looks bad on a resume and you'll have an increasingly harder time landing jobs if you never stay in one place very long.

[Garreg]

That's nothing but .. taking the 'P' !!!!

I'd be hung drawn and quartered here in the UK if I treated my staff that way! We have a legal obligation to sickness, holidays etc..... I'm not clued up on the USA.. but I doubt they would be any different. I'd seek professional advice and get it cleared up, if only for your own peace of mind.

[dtay73]

My unprofessional answer (just quized an HR person):

In the US employers are required to pay overtime if you are non-exempt (ie. hourly) for any time over 40 hours/week. Exempt (Salaried) it varies from place to place. Here in Indiana over 60 hours/week they are required to give you comp time or OT pay for the hours over 60. Benefits are not a requirement other than workman's comp coverage. Vaction, Holiday, personal and sick days are at the descretion of the employer. The reason that these benefits got started was the durning WWII there was a cap placed on wages for some reason (she couldn't remember) by the US governement. In order to draw employees in, companies started offering health insurance and vacation, holiday, personal days to get around this "salary cap". Although some of it is regulated by the government, participation is voluntary.


My personal opion:

Keep looking elsewhere. There are always some idiots who will take advantage to the end. On the other hand, there are people who are fair and generous. You just have to keep your eyes open. I have been in a few jobs like yours and finally found a good company that helps the employee (well, most the time). Companies are always making choices between money coming in and money going out. Employees are always money going out and some are more greedy than others. I would be printing off those resumes and looking around. This place sounds like a dead end anyway.

Take care.

[Scientifik]

Thanks for the advice guys, as far as looking for a new job I think I'm going to give it at least another 90 days before I do that, reason being I've only been here for 6 months and I must admit I've been learning tons since I started. I'm a bit hesitant to quit so soon because I'm aware it may appear I'm a flake to potential future employers. Yeah I know its a lousy situation, and I got myself into it, I keep telling myself that since the pay is good, that makes up for the lousy benefits. I knew there were limited medical benefits, however things like overtime, vacation, holiday and sick days, didn't come to mind. Live and learn I guess. I was thinking of moving out of california anyway, maybe I should start looking elsewhere in the country for a new gig.

[mresell]

California is incredibly high cost of living. Right to work states and size of business do effect things. Heck many companies in the us can get away with alot on the benefits arena. I often see they want you to pay for things as well and not reimburse you...this is often done in a subtle way. Most companies in this country feel people are expendible including CEO's, but they get paid more than god. It is worse everyday. Keep in mind 45 million americans have NO health insurance. I do see a problem w/ businesses even having to provide this to people.Many pay several hundred a month and still have lousy coverage.If your job is challenging then keep that in mind...since there is no perfect world...it is truly a personal decision.

[DigitalSkyline]

Unfortunately without unions this is what you get... corps have nothing but profits in mind. If they can get away with no benefits they will.

Not saying unions are all great.. they too can be greedy.

Some truer words:

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. "
Lord Acton

"Capitalism attacks and destroys all the finer sentiments of the human heart; it ruthlessly sweeps away old traditions and ideas opposed to its progress, and it exploits and corrupts those things once held sacred. "
Daniel De Leon

[mresell]

I am not big on unions...they seem worse. Bottom line is where there are people not thinking there are problems. I know plenty of people way worse off with unions.

[awen]

There is no need for Unions if people can pull together on their own, and protest what they deem is unfair.

This was the original idea of Unions, a way to get employees to stand up together and speak out against what is wrong.

Unfortunately, there are too many people willing to take your job, no matter how bad it is, so corporations don't care about the employees, they know someone else will come in and take your place. When no one will, then they will outsource, or hire illegal immigrants. They can do this, because so few companies care about their customers either, and can therefore justify (in their own minds) providing them with a tech support staff that barely speaks english.

I once applied for a job at a local ISP and was told they wouldn't hire me because I was already making way more than "they could offer". They wanted to pay minimum wage for tech support. This was about 8-9 years ago, when the internet was still somewhat of a new thing to the public. Know what? They found plenty of people to fill those positions. Right there in town, because they didn't think they could get more, or knew that others would fight for the position.

Expect more, demand more. Don't sell yourself short or give into this defeatism that if you don't accept a bag of crap, someone else will find the diamond in it. If everyone had this attitude, wages and benefits would be much better. After all, the novelty of talking to someone in India for a "Made In America" tech company will soon wear off if people quit tolerating it.

However, expect to pay more too. You can't expect to make top dollar and spend bargain basement prices for very long. It's one of those symbiotic relationship things...

[mresell]

Well the main purpose that most see employees for is for making money for the higher ups at lowest costs.That in itself is the problem of being an employee. Tons of people are not paid what they are worth...then there are those that are overpaid Bottom line it is all about money, so of course they don't care. In the US we ARE what we do for a living. That is what people ask. You are trained by society and both your working parents you never see and so on...so only the smaller percentage see the bigger picture. It is not healthy.

[DigitalSkyline]

You can't see the problem for what it is until it effects you personally... That's just a problem with our people today.

Unions lead themselves to greed and it took over... but the original idea of unions still hold true... unless people stand together against the powers that be, this is what you get. Low wage, no benefits.

What happens when you get sick? What happens if you become disabled? What happens when you're too old? Too bad for you! Too many think it can't happen to me, so this is what we get. Greedy corps will do anything for a profit... what do you expect?

I realized this long ago and therefore don't play that game... be self proficient and screw the evil empire. (half joking) - the moral of the story, don't settle.

[mresell]

unfortunately...if we valued and developed impathy and awareness more many people would be more enlightened.