Doing a job for "advertising" - Opinons?

[logic404]

Hey Guys,

I recently accepted a job in return for having a banner on the person's site. The site gets about 400 visitors per month. I only accepted it this morning, and during the course of the day got two "have you got a timeframe for this yet", and just now got a "have you started work yet" message.

I don't really tend to regard that kind of advertising as "payment in full" - more kind of a "I'll do you a favour, you'll do me one" - but with the understanding that (cash) paying customers need to come first, and jobs done on this basis aren't on any tight timeframe.

How do others feel? Do you think it's unreasonable of me to be a little peeved about being rushed on a job I'm not being paid for? Am I just paranoid?

[Brangwyn]

I'd be a little peeved too especially if you hadn't set any expectations the work would be commenced immediately. I've run into it a few times with customers myself, I generally just tell them the work will be done as soon as possible but that as I've other work already committed they're in a line and they ain't the first in it !

[dweimann]

Oh yah...I think you're thinking the right thing....paying clients come first. If the non-paying client complains about that, then they should feel free to pay you for your time in order for you to reprioritize their work. As the old saying goes, " Beggars can't be choosers."

Seeing that you're offering your work in exchange for what probably amounts to less than a clickthrough a month, you might as well be doing it for free. For jobs like that I reckon you get to do it on your own schedule or not at all, and they will have to bloody well deal with it or find themselves a sucker who will deliver free goods the same day.

I do not have any advice on how to tell them so nicely. "Listen here, matey..." comes to mind.

[logic404]

Oh good. Glad I'm not being a rude <insert four letter word>. I just get antsy when trying to please everyone!!

Excellent advice by everyone. In terms of not being rude (although it seems like they are), simply advise them of the truth, "Although I appreciate the banner and the opportunity to increase my business, paying customers must come first and I will get to your job just as soon as possible." If they're not happy with that, then odds are you're not going to make them happy, and you should just 'cut your losses' on the "one click-thru per month" that Alex mentioned. I'm always cautious of anyone that's pushy from the beginning.......

[generic]

glad to see you have time to waste typing in this forum rather than creating that banner...get to work...by the way, you think you can get it done by tomorrow?

never fails, the cheaper they are, the more they want, the more promises of work in the future that you will never see !!!

[logic404]

OMG - when i first started reading that post I thought you were serious!!

Too true. Mind you, in the client's credit, he backed off when I insinuated he was being a little pushy. Might not turn out so bad after all.

[dweimann]

In my experience I can say two things:

1.) beware of clients who either don't want to pay a reasonable rate, yet demand service

2.) beware of family members who see you as a great, free resource to do everything (even things you know little or nothing about, but they assume you do, since you are a *computer* person). Don't get me wrong, I love my family but it took a lot of delicate working and manipulating to get family members to actually *pay* for work (if they didn't pay something, i would never get to their projects, as my to do list is just too long, and paid clients automatically get moved to the beginning of the list)....and even then, I hesitate.

[Brian]

Pro bono work, or almost free work is OK, but you do have to be careful with how often you do it.

The occasional freebie can be a good business decision... but if you do it too often, you are setting a value on your services... a very low value.

Generally, I will give freebie work *occasionally* to one of my paying customers. I have done charitable work in the past, so long as a receipt was given for tax purposes. Other freebies, you really have to look at your investment, vs your gain or potential gain.

You are giving a banner to someone... how about making this business exchange a little better for you by saying

I'll get your banner completed by tomorrow afternoon, if you host your website with me using a plan which will cost you only $x.xx per month (or year, whatever)... then you will have more to gain. They still get the freebie... and you can justify getting the work done faster.

[nhdonny]

I also do the occassional and always regretable Pro-Bono job but I have a policy that helps with the confusion. Cover your ASS

I use a contract just like any other job. The contract spells out what the job is, what I get in return and any promises we've made to each other. I use my complete normal contract so that my copyrights and reputation are always protected. My contract is one I put together from pieces found and is not available.

I cover Expectations as they are always the big issue. Some pro bono jobs are actually critical to my own marketing and I give them the same scheduled time and expectations as a full paying client. those I schedule and treat as though I'm being paid. Others are like your banner for work and I'd spell it out with language such as.

"for inclusion of a top level, home page banner ad on XXX.org we will do the following work during our avaliable time and under no set schedule. We (designer name) will deliver the completed project no later than mm/dd/yy but not before mm/dd/yy".

Any work requested by client which is not included in the statement of work will at contractors option be billed at the rate of $xxx.xx/hour or page.

Statement of Work ... blah blah blah short but more detailed than you would for a paying client. Specify EXACTLY what they will get.

4 page website to include home, about, contact us etc.
Each page to include up to xxx words supplied by Client but edited by us.
Graphics for ...... or clip art -- Specify Specify

[jmbeach]

Yeah, I'm sure everyone has a horror story or two, or three... about those wanting work done for free or at a severe discount. In my experience, these folks talk big but often don't deliver much in return. That said, just be careful with future promises to this person. If you do something for nothing once, they'll probably expect that again.

Best to set their expectations now, and let him/her know that this is a one time deal.

The contract is a fantastic idea as well. But in the end, it's up to you to enforce it. You have to be a bull sometimes - just make sure you're taking care of yourself as well.

[Two Roads Media]

I think there are two kinds of freebie jobs:

1. The charity/non-profit job.

In this case, as a company we view this as the same as work for pay. If we agree to take on a job for a charity, we will take it as seriously as a paying client. We just make sure to set the parameters of what we will and won't do when we start the project.

2. The for-trade or "for-a-friend" job.

In these cases, I think it is really important to let them know up front what you can/can't, will/won't do for them. I have a friend who I did a site for - a business site - and the updates to their site were getting a little over the top. I suggested to him that he either - a. get a copy of Macromedia Contribute, do the updates himself and just ask me for help when necessary or b. send me updates only once per month at a designated time.

Either way, I think it is really important to set the standards at the outset and not let it get to the point of being driven crazy. But, if you don't tell them up front, I would tell them the moment you start to get irritated by it for sure.

[logic404]

I just want to clarify something - I'm not making a banner for this guy. I'm writing some interactive, db driven pages for his site, in exchange for being able to put my OWN banner on said site.

But thanks everyone for you views. It's an interesting topic and one I've felt worthy of discussion before this situation even came up.

[jmbeach]

do you know for a fact that his site will even generate any exposure for you? Is his site even on topic with what you'd like to advertise?

I'm naturally pessimistic, so excuse me if I sound as such