Frontpage EOL and Termination of Support

[soky]

Great advice DP... thanks!!!

[Steve]

Here is what Microsoft is stating.

Microsoft will be supporting FrontPage 2003 until 2011 (full support
until Jan. 2009). Support for FrontPage extensions ceased a few weeks ago (ceased in June for Unix servers). This does not mean that hosts have to stop using the extensions, but it is, and always has been, their choice.

FrontPage can be used for any website, whether using extensions or not. You will have to learn how to code form handlers etc. - everything that requires FP extensions.

FrontPage (the program) can be used until you no longer have a PC that
will run it - at least another 10 years since, IMO, Vista will have a
supported life of around that term, and FP2003 will run on Vista.
--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)

---
With this information, can we please keep the extentions on the windows server until 2009?



Steve Kincade

[Steve]

Microsoft replied again ...

Microsoft will be supporting FrontPage 2002 extensions on Windows 2003
servers for at least 2 years (2 years after Server 2008 goes RTM), and
extended support for 2 years after that.
Extensions for IIS7 are currently in Beta, but may or may not reach
production.

<snip>

--
Ron Symonds - Microsoft MVP (FrontPage)

[Danl]

We never claimed that they were going to stop supporting it. We just stated that we were going to stop supporting it.

-Dan

[Steve]

So, may I ask why would vortech stop supporting it? with so many clients dependant on it? the reasons given in the announcement are not valid now that we know it will not be broken and stop working.

So again why not continue to support and use what Microsoft is supporting and using?

I have been in contact with several other reseller providers and the answer is the the same for each of them... we do not have any plans to stop supporting Fp Extensions.

Considering that I estimate 90% of my clients use FP extensions to some degree or another, this is a very serious issue.

I truly believe that most of the vortech resellers do not realise the seriousness of this decision and I an sorry to say, I also think it will be a nightmare for Vortech once this is turned off.

Please reconsider your decision. Vortech is a great provider and I do not want to tackle the nightmare of moving all clients to another reseller.

Steve

[Steve]

Your right Dan, but you state the reason why you were not going to support it and with this new information, that reason is not vailid. So I will go on championing the cause to keep FP Extentions on the Windows Servers.

Again, please reconsider the decision to stop supporting FP Extentions.

Originally Posted by Danl

We never claimed that they were going to stop supporting it. We just stated that we were going to stop supporting it.
-Dan

[Tina]

It is only the bots that are a problem in FP if you don't use them but some like using fpse for publishing and sometimes need to open the web live, you should know that EW will let you open the web live on the server with FTP unlike fp ... unlike third party ftp programs that only allow the html text file to be edited... with ew you can open just like normal. There are some caveats with dwts and includes (includes being an exception to the bots btw).

Encouraging your clients to move away from themes, photogallery hit counters, shared borders and nav bots .... themes and sb and nav bots in particular as they produce code that won't validate... is the way to go. I've been doing this for quite some years with the people I help on frontpage lists.. and also helping people to transition from fp to ew and having some clean code.... there are many fpers that can't cope with that they percieve as 'easy' to use when in fact it's twice as hard to maintain...

It would be nice to be able to use sharepoint on here but I don't want to have to pay more than I do now. Since I knew about the fpse going away from sometime early this year I've been looking around for another host because I wanted to be able to keep fpse (for publishing only) but I've got to grips with ftping now using filezilla and ew .. and despite a problem here and there (like not being answered on why the server won't return the correct headers for 404 but that is for another thread) this host comes out above any others I have had.. I've been here about five years I think ... the price and the sheer quanity of features coupled with the control over being able to have a unix or a windows plan have asp or php and as many domains as I want much else besides.. I can't find another host that competes even very expensive hosts don't have all the features this one can give me .. and I don't resell this is just for my 15 or so domains... Things change .. it would have been better to have had longer for some of you to transition ... and I understand it's a problem when you resell ... but its either move to another host for those fpse customers or get them to transition... educate them.....plans won't change here because this is not a frontpage server guru host .. its not their thang .... try orcs.com for that kind of thing has lots of ms mvps and many say they are very good on the fpse/sharepoint front, but its flogging a dead horse trying to get matrix to change their mind. It is true support is not gone from ms for years but this host does not want to bother with them any more and that is their right to do so and it is obvious they are very glad to do so.... I think they have waited quite nicely time wise so its not so much of a shock.. it has been over a year since ctp on ew.


hth Tina

[awen]

From the early days when I first started using FP, I knew this would happen eventually. Nothing lasts forever. As such I avoided the canned scripts that FP embeds. I use it as an editor and for the simple FTP access, allowing me to edit live pages and save them while behind the scenes FP is storing them to temp files, and uploading them for me without using a traditional FTP.

I also love the global search and replace features, but that's about as far into the extensions as I have allowed myself to go as far as I know. Will we still be able to do these things, or once support is cut off will I have to rely on the traditional FTP and other apps for search and replace on live sites?

[Tina]

Huh? Search and Replace (find and replace) has NEVER been a bot .. it's a feature ... your safe on that. Why not just work on the hard drive and then ftp up? btw Expression Web allows you to actually work live on the server with FTP... some settings are different ... and really it's only good for direct editing ... if you have to save includes or dwts it is much much easier on the hd and then to ftp up. .. ew has more in find and replace features.

Tina

[Steve]

While i agree with what you say, there is one problem with the logic. You may not use FP to the hilt, many other users do. What I cannot understand is we, as resellers, have been able to advertise that we support FP Extensions and even Vortech still advertises that they support FP Extensions. So...

With support not ending from Microsoft until 2011, why is Vortech shooting US in the foot and removing them. I have not been able to locate any other site seller or reseller that has any plans to stop this support.

Translation: this will mean a LOSS OF INCOME to you and me as we 1. lose existing customers and 2. Fail to acquire new business. Why? because we do not OFFER FP Extensions. Our personal feelings on FPE do not matter. We are in the supply business and now we have one less thing to offer the public.

Think about it. The decision of Vortech will not affect them unless they lose resellers, which is a nightmare decision to have to make. It is the resellers, you and me, that will suffer financially from this decision that has no merit. There reason has been shown to be faulty and they have refused to talk about this or even comment on the reason they are doing this.

Steve

[awen]

Tina, Cool! I'll check out Expression Web.

Steve, you're absolutely right. But I've been here long enough to know it doesn't matter how much you, or even if many of us protest this decision.

Vortech is going to do what they want to do. Many of their support tickets end up being related to Front Page, this is their way out to free up some support time as well as (hopefully) improve windows server reliablity and uptime.

They aren't likely to reverse their decision.

[Tina]

I only have a reseller account because it is more cost effective when you have more than three domains...It is only for myself and I make and maintain a couple of sites for close family ... I would not be stupid enough to resell to anyone because then I would not be in control while being responsible ...the mere thought frightens me silly...(I gave in once and hosted a friend of a friend as a favour to the friend... and she bartered for the space... and guess what ... I had no control.. because in the lead up to the fpse going away they started dropping features .. one of which was the picture upload feature in fp.... and it was a main part of her business and essential....I looked really stupid to the 'client'.....that wasn't going to happen again.... the situation your in now.... if you really want that control you will club together perhaps with others buy your own servers and either look after them yourself or buy a service for that purpose ..... it's like on lists at yahoo .. members think they can tell you want to do when you own a list .... they can't ....either your the captain of the ship or your not... If vortech have decided they don't want to be responsible for fpse.... and are willing to lose clients on that front....that's up to them... they must figure the lost does not exceed what they gain in keeping it. That or other factors that come into play. One can get upset over it all or do something about it... don't spend your energy bemoaning the problem ... go find another host that will keep fpse. ... and btw if you were on the fp lists and communities etc you would hear plenty of moaning about their hosts dropping fpse .. those people either move to ew and start learning how to do it the right way or they move to a host that is keeping the fpse.... I would not worry that there will be no fpse hosts .. because it's going to be a niche market... you will have to pay more but ... people will be willing to support fpse for a long time because they know they will be getting the business... you gotta love what you do though... I know of a few hosts like that but they are not reseller hosts... anyway I can see the point of view of the host .... it's their business they get to do what they like... clients can vote with their feet or not ... I've over come the fpse problem for myself in that I have the 'comfort zone' of being able to work live when I need to... I only have to please one person.. myself... I feel sorry for your plight but we were warned early in the year about this so there has been plenty of time to work something else out. I've outlined a few scenerios .... another one is that you can try and educate your clients and offer a free help service to those that want to transition over (in order to keep them as clients) to ew ... or even keep fp and drop the bots .. and give them alternative solutions for the bots (and there are many)..... turn the negative into a postive.

Hope this was helpful in some small way.

Tina

[dpyers]

FWIW, although I haven't seen her posting for a while, Tina has been one of the long-time posters on the FP and EW usenet groups. Even have a couple of her posts stashed in my save file.
Her page at http://any-expression.com/expression-web/addons/ is the place for looking up ways to replace FP.

[Brangwyn]

Well just to play devils advocate here

Originally Posted by psoft

H-Sphere 2.5 version updates and fixes will be discontinued by October 1, 2007. PSoft encourages all customers to update to stable 3.0 version by this date.

So when are we upgrading to 3.0 (which includes sharepoint support btw)

[dpyers]

<giggles class="little_girl">You Bad!</giggles>