Gas Prices

[bootNumlock]

one day later -- prices have bumped to 2.89 -- this has been another one of those .25 price jump weeks...

what a bunch of crap!

[mresell]

There's a reason these big companies buy alternative energy inventions and put them on shelves. Seems also strangely bizarre that the 2 previously significant inventors of solar tech are dead (died very prematurely) w/ a third now continuing the tech. Imagine getting enough solar energy out of a small cheap cell which of course has always been *claimed* to be not possible. What's also scary is all the talk about making the internet a utility. Look at what you pay for electricity and phone with all the mysterious addon charges in there. The tax people are bad enough. I am all for an economy and providing jobs I just don't enjoy the underhanded, inefficient and leechy way the organizations go about it.

[awen]

I saw this the other day and like the "Don't buy gas on a certain day", this plan too is fundementally flawed.

First of all, we don't have many Exxon and Mobil stations around here. Most are Phillips/Connoco.

But regardless of that, lets say we did make an impact by not buying from Exxon and Mobil. There is essientially a "limited supply" of oil at any given time because they can only produce it so fast and they are telling us that they are all running at near full capacity.

If everyone gets their gas from other companies, their supplies will diminish quicker, and they will raise prices to control demand. (And take in even more profits.)
Furthermore, they may purchase additional gas from Exxon and Mobil who now have a surplus, to sell to us, and probably jack the price up a bit more for extra "work" of making those deals.

Protesting auto manufacturers who produce cars with poor fuel economy and buying more effecient cars from overseas only causes huge layoffs and shut downs at our manufacturing plants as seen recently, rather than provoking them to make better cars.

The only way to beat this is to not need oil at all, or at least significantly reduce our demand.

The only way to do that is with alternative sources which are too expensive to be any help to those who need that savings the most.

We have to tell the government that we're sick of oil, and they need to get us off it now! Spend more money on developing the technology and infrastructure needed for the new system and less on wars and global babysitting. Tell them that the current plans have percentages of on/off oil that are too low and deadlines set that are too far out. We need this now, and we should start laying off politicians who aren't "on the job", all the way up to the top if necessary.

[dpyers]

The urban legends site has some commentary about the scheme
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

[stanj]

Late into this thread but it is a slow day. Here is my take on the issue:
Gas prices are not just controlled by supply and demand but in this case a somewhat fixed total allotment which causes unnatural spiking in prices if there are even minor changes hourly with distribution. The world produces 23,000,000 barrels a day. No expert claims there is much left in potentional expansion of this value. New discoveries are occuring regularly but the additional capacity is essentially nullified by waning productivity of old fields meaning we are sitting at peak production now with no magic bullets on the horizon to increase it. The problem is not so much now when we have 1% surplus capacity but tomorrow when we have 0% overcapacity. That is not sometime far into the future but any given hour, today or tomorrow, peak production capacity is consumed fully. When the OPEC slowdown cut oil supplied 10% and caused the mile long gas lines and the end of the decades old growth to the middle class percentage in the US, back in 1972, their cutback equaled the 10% overproduction capacity the industry maintained for 50years. Now it is 1%. 10% allowed for some moderation of prices as a shock absorber. Now ANY disruption causes the supply and demand price schedule to go into hyperdrive, luckily for hours or a few days only....so far. Any pipeline break or refinery shut down causes an immediate spike. It is estimated that 15% of the current price of oil over its previous 5 year average is due to one pipeline in Iraq being intermittent in productivity. That is how close to a major problem we have right here now. Just think if that one car of suiside bombers, a few months ago, who infiltrated the Saudi refinery complex that supplied 23% of the fuel of the world. They got through 2 barriers and only one remained to absolutely stop western economies in its tracks.
The problems of high prices will be dwarfed by the problem of highly competitve alternate buyers. Currently the US consumes 12-13,000,000 barrels/day of the world production. It imports 66% of the countries oil needs. The US is also the 3rd largest producer of oil in the world behind S.A. and Russia. It has 5% of the population. China, India and other developing countries have projected their economic planning on >$200/barrel as a realistic price they will have to pay to ensure a supply for their industry and explosion in middle class auto and transportation desires. If the projections are correct, China alone will consume(if available) 12,000,000 barrels a day within 8 years. In 5 years their auto industry alone expects to be the largest producer, and almost all for home consumption, of cars in the world. They already produce more cars than all but Japan and the US.
Something just does not add up. If the US economy is based on unnaturally low fuel prices, can the the US economy make the shift needed to compete with monster consumers like China and India? Can the US economy handle $20-30/gallon gas? No public transport, no central living, extreme waste, and a belief in a "right" to waste if the money is there to pay for it? Humm. The only answer i can think of is a drastic restructuring of American life. Living within our means of fuel, incomes and resources.
I moved from California where a car is a birth right to St Petersburg Russia where there is no shortage of oil but the city is just set up for effiecent use of resources. I would die in California without a car but here, it would be a nusance. Everything is close in, walking and public transportation works great. In the winter there is no heater in each house or appartment but large central boiler plants that send hot water for radiators to every building in the city. My apartment stays cozy all arctic winter The total demand on resources is a small fraction of what individual houses require in the US. My energy impact on the earth is small living here, while doing more and having more fun than when I lived in a big house in California. Seeing how natural and painless the shift was for me I think it is something that could be imported to the US to drop the insane waste of resources needed to sustain an unsustainable lifestyle. I get to spend 10 times as much time with friends and cultural events now that I am not saddled with boundless "things" that I never had time to use but needed to feed time money and resources. If the US does not decide to shift in life style, the world economy shifts will force it on the US with very sad consequences for the resistant among us. Think about a world where there are 1.5 billion middle class, all without much debt and wanting to buy, at any price, the resources you think you need to sustain your life. Already India has more middle class than total population of the US. Wait until all of them want cars. Who is going to divide up that 23,000,000 barrels a day? The market place. And the US can not afford it.

[maytricks]

Originally Posted by bootNumlock

one day later -- prices have bumped to 2.89 -- this has been another one of those .25 price jump weeks...

what a bunch of crap!

Has been $3.00+ here for a while, you are lucky it is only $2.89

[toddharr]

Because their product name was similar to a site I hosted, I got involved with a MLM company that sells a fuel additive. I affiliated with them to make a buck off the the suckers, err.. customers who went through me to buy the stuff.

Had to buy a few bottles to stay in their system, and was outright shocked when I gained 3MPG!
So, stating in advance that I will make a buck if you buy some, visit www.enviromax.com and give EnviroMax+ catalyst fuel additive a try. Money back if not happy... At $3.50+ a gallon you only need 1 MPG improvement and the stuff pays for itself.

Todd

(Go ahead and flame me, I'm wearing my asbestos undies!)

[jmbeach]

wanna know how I got 3mpg more than usual? I make sure my tires are inflated, my car is tuned up, and I don't race around like I used to. No additives needed...

Sure I drive like a granny now, but it feels better at fill-up time. Also, every now and again I drive my wife's hybrid, and it's like a game trying to get the best mileage that I can. The other day on a 200 mile trip it averaged 51mpg... not bad in my book!