email under the new regime

[ramjet]

in another thread Josane posted that his/her email tests show that a 5 mb email counts as 10 mb traffic (5 megs to the server, 5 megs download to the client).
I have a couple of questions i'm hoping Matrix can answer....
1)is this correct?
2)if it came in, and was forwarded to another box would this be 15 megs (in, forward and download?)

Also if we have complete stability with mail (which we now appear to do), and since its charged bandwidth and storage(i'm presuming), can we PLEASE NOT do the deleted from server after a month thing (or at least increase the time to say 3 months), as it makes even Hotmail seem more attractive to some (travelling or computerless) people!

I realise you guys might not know how mail is treated yet, but i'm hoping you can look into these questions.
cheers, murray.

[eisman]

I was just about to start my own thread on this very topic.

I whole heartedly agree. PLEASE don't delete my email. Charge me for the space, and the bandwidth I use to view it, add a fee for email retention, set a mailbox size limit, anything. Just don't delete email because it has been on the server for a month.

This is my only sticking point with your service. You can't use matrix to host a business where there are users that travel or need access to their email from multiple computers. I understand your storage space concerns but email is so critical in todays world that you can't miss/loose a single one.

I am of the school that the less you touch email the better. I don't want you to protect me from SPAM, nor do I want my outgoing messages subject to ANY blocking. If I spam someone else and get reported to you, by all means, cancel my account and burn the backups, but don't touch my day to day email. As I mentioned before, I'd be pleased to pay for a business class email service. As it stands right now, I will have to start turning off email for my domains and pointing the MX records to other servers. It is unacceptable to me and my clients to have mail blocked or deleted.

Please examine your stance on email. To the other customers out there that read this message please show your support for a business class email service, and what type of fee (if any) you find acceptable.

Thank You

[jmbeach]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that with the change to summary disk usage, email is not included in our overall total - thus the addition of space to all Matrix plans.

If this is the case, then there should be no question any longer that we should be able to store email - when email space wasn't added to our storage totals, I was all for Matrix determining how long we get to store email, but if we are, in fact, paying for mail storage, it should be treated as web storage - with no time limitations.

[eisman]

Hmmmm. I forgot about that. If we are already paying for the space then the deletion policy should be rescinded.

[pbradley503]

I agree with this thread. Deleting email after a month is absolutely insane. I'd rather be charged for the allocation of mailbox space than deal with this "don't leave your mail on the server for more than 30 days" policy. More or less, you're forcing us to use POP over IMAP as the whole point of IMAP is having mail on the server. I'm sorry but IMAP is here and I cannot live without it.

[admin]

I would love to drop this 30 day thing, but since users seem to get SOOOO much spam and just leave it in a box drives start to get full. Sure I could add more drives and more drives but when is it just to much.. If we can get all the spam users are getting under control then we may be able to lift it.. But why is it absolutely insane for us to do it when MSN, Yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, EarthLink and many many others.. It really should not be left on the server. If you want something like IMAP why not get an exchange box thats what we use..

[jmbeach]

Brad, can you clarify if mail is now added to our overall disk space allowance - I don't recall whether or not this was the case when you raised the disk space limits for your hosting plans.

[eisman]

Originally Posted by admin

I would love to drop this 30 day thing, but since users seem to get SOOOO much spam and just leave it in a box drives start to get full. Sure I could add more drives and more drives but when is it just to much.. If we can get all the spam users are getting under control then we may be able to lift it..

I'd venture a guess and say it's too much when you aren't paid for the storage space. If our email storage counts toward our total space then we are paying for the storage. If it is not counted then I'd like an option to pay for the space.

Originally Posted by admin

But why is it absolutely insane for us to do it when MSN, Yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, EarthLink and many many others.. It really should not be left on the server.

MSN, yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, Earthlink etc... are personal accounts. I am paying to run a business and (i can't stress this enough) CANNOT have a single email deleted. I am paying/will pay you to retain the email!

Originally Posted by admin

If you want something like IMAP why not get an exchange box thats what we use..

Do you offer an Exchange setup with any of the plans? If we have to go elseware to get satisfactory email service, then what is the point of buying a package deal from matrix to begin with? I enjoy most everything about your service except for the email retention policy.

Perhaps only delete old emails in the user's 'inbox' and nothing in IMAP sub-folders. This would be atleast provide a way for users to retain email they know they need. Currently there is no way to keep email available online rendering IMAP useless.

[admin]

Originally Posted by eisman

I'd venture a guess and say it's too much when you aren't paid for the storage space. If our email storage counts toward our total space then we are paying for the storage. If it is not counted then I'd like an option to pay for the space.



MSN, yahoo, Hotmail, AOL, Earthlink etc... are personal accounts. I am paying to run a business and (i can't stress this enough) CANNOT have a single email deleted. I am paying/will pay you to retain the email!



Do you offer an Exchange setup with any of the plans? If we have to go elseware to get satisfactory email service, then what is the point of buying a package deal from matrix to begin with? I enjoy most everything about your service except for the email retention policy.

Perhaps only delete old emails in the user's 'inbox' and nothing in IMAP sub-folders. This would be atleast provide a way for users to retain email they know they need. Currently there is no way to keep email available online rendering IMAP useless.

Well in this case we also never said we supported IMAP on our site did we? I have never put that on our site because its not something we ever wanted to include. It just happen to be on a server and somereseller ( Not sure if somereseller the user or just some other reseller ) found IMAP running and used then a few others started using it after anther post here.. So if IMAP was not on the server the only other option would be what?? To download your mail to your outlook like every one else does. Thats what we offer and have always offered.. IMAP just happened to really be there by a slim chance of psoft..

Right from our site: "POP3/SMTP Account(s)" nothing about IMAP any where.. If we remove IMAP then we could leave the mail there as long as needed because as soon as it was checked by the end user it would come off the server.. Its really that simple.. The IMAP thing is just something psoft happened to install, we could turn it off and that fixes the problem as no mail would be left on the server unless you check the option in outlook to leave it on the server..

IMAP has just never been part of our package and should of been removed a LONG time ago but we just ended up leaving it. The 30 day rule only makes small issues for users that do use IMAP. All POP3 users never know any thing was deleted because they download there mail..

As for paying for the mail space, what do you think AOL and all the others charge you for SPACE then they delete it in 30 days.. Its not uncommon..


No what you said about the IMAP folders may be a VERY VERY good fix for some of this and will see if we can script something to skip them.. Because most users would not move MASS amounts of spam in to those folders.. That is a very good idea I will just have to see if that can be done or not..

[admin]

BTW yes mail space is added to the over all space but we still don't want to fill up servers as that would just start anther issue. I will also look at just deleting mail from the postmaster/webmaster accounts after 30days or catch all accounts.. They are the big issue ones.. No one checks there postmaster or webmaster accounts and they get 100's and 100's of emails a day, catch alls are just other issues.. I have seen a lot of users turn catch all on for postmaster then just NEVER check it again..

[ramjet]

good stuff brad, postmaster/webmaster and inbox/trash on catchall i'm sure would be ok deleted. But allowing stored folders to remain would be a big plus.
It would also be good to state this somewhere on atmail (if you want to save an email you must move it from inbox to a folder within 30 days).

Also my original question at the top of this thread, how is traffic charged for internal movement/download? I wouldn't mind an authoratitave answer.

in another thread Josane posted that his/her email tests show that a 5 mb email counts as 10 mb traffic (5 megs to the server, 5 megs download to the client).
I have a couple of questions i'm hoping Matrix can answer....
1)is this correct?
2)if it came in, and was forwarded to another box would this be 15 megs (in, forward and download?)

[admin]

Yes even if its going from joe.com to joe1.com on the same system it logs it the same. It still has to move that data around so yes it would still be charged. No easy way around that one.

[eisman]

Thanks for listening to my suggestion about the IMAP folders. That would solve the bulk of my problems as I use @mail, with IMAP login, while I am on the road and sort my messages into folders under the Inbox. If I could be sure that those messages would stay there it would be sufficient, and I am sure that most of my clients would be pleased too.

Also, I wouldn't lump all catch-all addresses into the mass deletion, I use the catch-all to grab missaddressed email to ppl that use my service. I think anything left in any Inbox for more than 60 days is fair game for deletion, couple that with a disk usage and a 'last login' check on the account and I'd consider that a good email cleanup policy.

I think a more robust email service would be a great money maker for you. As you said, most hosts/ISP's only offer POP, but real business accounts require something more. If that's not the demographic you are aiming for, I can understand. If it is, I'll be 1st in line to sign up.

[ramjet]

Yes even if its going from joe.com to joe1.com on the same system it logs it the same. It still has to move that data around so yes it would still be charged. No easy way around that one.

Extra bandwidth might
Xmas is a time for asking.
Or is that giving.
Either/or.

[logic404]

i don't know that just the IMAP thing would solve it, would it? Case in point...I know one of my customers (who normally uses POP) travels regularly. When he's away, he sets his email client to "Leave messages on the server" so he can access webmail during his trip. Then, when he returns, he unchecks "Leave messages on the server" in outlook, and voom, all the stored messages are gone. But - if he's away for more than a month (and don't laugh, it happens frequently!), then his older mail will start disappearing.

I don't understand what the issue is if each mailbox has a quota - if you've got 5MB to store mail in, then it's your 5MB to use, isn't it? If you have exactly 5MB of stuff in it, then the mail server should just start bouncing your mail because your mailbox is full, yeah? So why clean up people's mail for them? I'm confused...