Terrorist Attacks

[antic]

jetzkr8, well written, and some wonderful sentiments here as well as more harsh ones.. kinda good to see a range of views and how they're responded to.

Call me simple, uneducated, whatever... but I believe that there are Christians who will throw stones, Muslims who will throw stones, Protestants, Catholics, Jews and even Buddhists who will throw stones.

I also believe that most people just want to enjoy their lives and loved ones, provide for their families, have purpose in life, and follow their beliefs in peace and without fear. I believe the MAJORITY of people, whatever their beliefs, are like that. What else is life for? In any case to assume the opposite is pointless.

We all feel outraged and fearful at what's going on in the world. We need to. Indifference is worse. But don't use that outrage to create more fear or cast blame on those without hatred yet in their hearts. I say "yet" because if you preach hate, hate will be learned. To think as they think is an hypocracy and the brother of the very evil we want to eradicate. It's a very slippery slope from outrage to malice.

The only way to fight for a better world is to use that outrage to instead preach solidarity, which gives rise to trust and strength in your community. If you want to preach, go out and talk to muslims, make them feel that there are people out there who support them as peaceful citizens. The alternative is to create more fear, more division, and that's exactly what these terrorists want, isn't it?

Blaming an entire people is exactly what the terrorists do to us. Do you really want to be thinking like they think? Or do you want to really be a revolutionary and truly protect your family into the future, by fostering trust, solidarity and goodwill?

It's our choice what tools we use to create the world around us.

Can we build it? Yes we can.

[jetzkr8]

Actually the words came from Ms. Tina Olivera for which I cannot claim credit. It came to me in a newsletter I receive regularly from http://www.trans4mind.com. I simply appreciate and share the common thought and feelings.

Antic has further defined what is going on in my mind. The evil-doer can be just about anyone out there, it is only human. The solutions to the issues facing all of us is compassion and love. This approach softens feelings into acceptance and against retaliation.

Antic, you will be surprised how stupid some highly educated can be when it comes to certain things. To me, it needs little education to open up the heart. What is required is compassion and love, something given to all of us by GOD.

However the world-stage would not be complete without the complementing factor. All action has an equal and opposite reaction; Yin-Yang; etc. For peace to be appreciated, it would seem God had to demonstrate evil; quite the same as in beauty vs. ugly. That's simply nature.

World issues are often clouded by politics with their respective agenda. The greediness for wealth, often is disguised by highly noble objectives as governments set out to enforce their will and power. Ordinary people are simply hypnotised into control by the dominating few. It is never the people at large who display hatred, but are mainly misled by the manipulating few.

There exists no religion that is above the other. All have their positive traits. Most religious-biased negatives often originates from twisted interpertrations by man. I see religion as a refinement of the way of life. Though I am a Hindu by birth, I have come to undertsand that all religions are really one, and having been manifested in their age/period, have their advantages and disadvantages. Each religion undergoes a period of ruthlessness, manipulation and finally decay. None has ever withstood the test of time. That is why I believe GOD has remained busy creating newer faiths, each customized for peoples of a certain geographic location and over a historical timeline. AFter all it is inconceivable that the Chriastian, Muslim, Hindu and all other Gods are sitting on a round table and negotiating for each of their representations. There can be only one, and all man is from that one. The sooner everyone understands that, the better it will be for the world.

[antic]

I love this quote...

"It's not so much that people are stupid, but many don't take the time to think things through."
--Lionel, talk show host on WABC Talk Radio

[antic]

Actually if you REALLY want to see some of the truth behind the so-called "war on terror" and learn about the culpability of the Neo-Conservative influence in US politics, seriously have a look at the documentary "The Power Of Nightmares - The Rise Of The Politics Of Fear"

Look for it on BitTorrent... it's three 1-hour episodes. It was also shown in Cannes and is highly worth the viewing. You'll end up with a completely different perspective on the whole sordid mess. If you want to know what is going on, see it.

[dpyers]

Other than perhaps Tibet, I can't think of a historical instance where aligning religion with politics hasn't lead to blood.

[DigitalSkyline]

Well ... I guess I'm more of a cut and dry, logically minded person. At least I try to be... so sometimes there are things that defy logic, such as the muslim religion, that just get my blood boiling. So I appologise for sounding so ass-hole-ish... its all just so infuriating. I'm all for Utopian ideals and everyone getting along etc... unfortunately its just not the world in which we live.

I can't go so far as to say I hate anyone... but there are those who have no place in a peaceful civilized world... such as the muslims who aid and enable the enemy of civilized society.

Please tell me the last time you heard of a Christian (or insert your religion here) strapping a bomb to their body and entering a school with the intention of killing children.

When you give you money to a Christian church or organization, your hope is it goes to helping people less fortunate, and spreading the word of Christ. Christ's message was one of peace and tolerance and forgiveness for our obvious faults. Turn the other cheek and treat your neighbor as you would have them treat you, its people are supposed to be sheep. Innocent...to a fault perhaps. Historically not always the case, but that's not the fault of God, it's mans manipulation, and greed to blame.

Give money to a Muslim org. and you are giving money to the lions. They stand for nothing but the killing of all non-muslims, actually, anyone who defy's the word of mohamed... who was a conquerer and war monger and nothing more.

Here in America they come to exploit us... they say they hate us but give no logical reason... other then being non-muslim... they hate us for being successful as many others do. So at their core they are jealous. Jealousy breeds anger, and I guess mix that with some "prophet's" ramblings and you got the modern muslim religious fanatic.

True muslims have little to redeem them... saying they are peaceful is just not true. They hide behind the veil (literally and figuratively) of religious freedom... They are like a cancer, first its just a little blemish here and there, the next thing you know, its taking over and by then its too late too do anything about it. To kill cancer, sometimes you have kill the patient. The patient in this case is civilization as we know it.

Try and read that peace on earth poem to bin-laden... maybe that will change the world.

[Altair]

DigitalSkyline,

I understand your anger. Their religion may say that any who do not follow their word, should be killed, but many religions have done the same thing. Even if the holy book for the various religions of the world did not say to kill any that do not follow their word, some people would distort it into saying that some how.

Let's remove religion... What do we have? We have good people, and bad people. That is the TRUE break down of our world. I personally believe in GOD, but the books that people shove in other peoples faces trying to "save" them are nothing more than stories with some good lessons to be learned and possibly applied to life. I personally, try to study as many religions as possible, in an attempt to keep myself informed and open minded.

There are fanatics in every religion. Does that mean that we should turn on the entire religion when a couple of small groups blow up a building and claim it is because they violated the word of GOD? If that were the case, we would have kill just about every one.

One comment on your killing the person to kill the cancer. If you kill the person to kill the cancer... The cancer wins.

[DigitalSkyline]

Originally Posted by Altair

One comment on your killing the person to kill the cancer. If you kill the person to kill the cancer... The cancer wins.

That was my point ...

Anyways if you could remove religion from this war, they would be only mass-murderers, and we would be cops hunting them down to prevent them from murdering again.

Only that is too convenient, because to them this is a religious war... a war that on their side is continuous and that can never end until their objectives are met, which are of course impossible to meet without the destruction of everything we know. This is why we can not lose this war... and to underestimate them or their motives would be disastrous on a scale we have never seen before.

Let them get a single nuke, and its end game... they bomb us or Israel or anyone else, we bomb everyone, everyone bombs eachother... the end... good bye... good night... game over.

Any thoughts of peace without victory are futile and only embolden our enemy.

[Garreg]

Not sure if this has been circulated in the USA or else where, but below is a copy of an email being sent around the UK.

I think it's a great idea and have done it myself..... what do you think?

East Anglian Ambulance Service have launched a national "In case of Emergency (ICE)" campaign with the support of Falklands war hero Simon
Weston and in association with Vodafone's annual life savers award (see further details below).
The idea is that you store the word "ICE" in your mobile phone address book, and against it enter the number of the person you would want to be
contacted "In Case of Emergency". In an emergency situation ambulance and hospital staff will then be able to quickly find out who your next of kin are and
be able to contact them.
It's so simple - everyone can do it. Please do. Please will you also forward this to everybody in your address book, it won't take too many forwards'
before everybody will know about this. It really could save your life.

Help out in a crisis - with ICE
A Cambridge-based paramedic has launched a national campaign with Vodafone to encourage people to store emergency contact details in their mobile
phones.

Bob Brotchie, a clinical team leader for the East Anglian Ambulance NHS Trust, hatched the plan last year after struggling to get contact details from shocked or injured patients. By entering the acronym ICE - for In Case of Emergency - into the mobile's phone book, users can log the name and number of someone who should be
contacted in an emergency.

The idea follows research carried out by Vodafone that shows more than 75 per cent of people carry no details of who they would like telephoned following a serious accident.

Bob, 41, who has been a paramedic for 13 years, said: "I was reflecting on some of the calls I've attended at the roadside where I had to look through the mobile phone contacts struggling for information on a shocked or injured person.

"It's difficult to know who to call. Someone might have "mum" in their phone book but that doesn't mean they'd want them contacted in an emergency.

"Almost everyone carries a mobile phone now, and with ICE we'd know immediately who to contact and what number to ring. The person may even know of their medical history."

The campaign was launched this week by Bob and Falklands war hero Simon Weston in association with Vodafone's annual Life Savers Awards.

Vodafone spokesperson Ally Stevens said: "The Life Savers Awards already demonstrate, through practical example, the important role a mobile phone can play when minutes matter in an emergency.

"By adopting the ICE advice, your mobile will now also help the rescue services quickly contact a friend or relative - which could be vital in a life or death situation."

The campaign is also asking people to think carefully about who will be their ICE partner - with helpful advice on who to choose - particularly if that person has to give consent for emergency medical treatment.

Bob hopes that all emergency services will promote ICE in their area as part of a national awareness campaign to highlight the importance of carrying next of kin details at all times.

He said the idea was for the benefit of loved ones as well as the patient.

"Research suggests people recover quicker from the psychological effects of their loved one being hurt if they are involved at an earlier stage and they can reach them quickly," he added.

He said he hoped mobile phone companies would now build the ICE contact into future models, adding: "It's not a difficult thing to do. As many people say they carry mobile phones in case of an emergency, it seems natural this information should be kept there."

[TonyK]

Ok for your information just so you don't go over board with this two Brits did it not Arabs it was on TV this morning

[Garreg]

Actually, there were four 'suicide' bombers - all were British Muslims, one had recently returned from a six month visit to Afghanistan.

According to investigations reported on the media here in the UK, they travelled to London from the Leeds / Yorkshire area where yesterday numerous dawn raids were undertaken by the Police.

This marks a new 'shift' in UK history, for years we lived with terrorist bombs planted by the IRA. Now we have 'suicide bombers' - from 'within'. How we cope / deal or combat that is beyond me.....

Sadly, we are now seeing a rise in racial attacks, last night I counted eight Mosques that had been either 'fire bombed' or attacked here in the UK. The Police and media are trying to play it down... but eight? hardly a coincidence.....

Sad days.....

[antic]

The most intelligent thing I've heard about it so far, is that our leaders should address WHY people end up following breakaway philosophies of destruction and retribution for imagined "evils".

France has a policy of deporting religous zealots that preach extremist and antisocial views to easily-influenced followers. Britain is thinking of adopting the same policy now.

It's an idea worth implementing, for safety's sake. We don't need sheikhs, muftis or Grand Poobahs taking it upon themselves to convince people our society is "evil". It's no more or less so than any other imperfect social system in this imperfect world. We all do our best to live a meaningful life. If someone wants to condemn everyone around them as infidel, they can do it somewhere else, hopefully where no-one will pay them much heed.

Perhaps reserve some desert island for them all, where they can all argue until they're blue in the face or blow each other up. It's the FEW vocal, charismatic and influential ones that create all the trouble.

Fanaticism requires a leader for the stupid, quick-to-anger and easily-swayed to follow. Without them spreading the rhetoric, the angry ones at least have a chance to learn something different. Namely, that nothing is perfect. It will never be a perfect world, an Islamic world, nor a Christian, Jewish or Hindu world. They need to learn to live with that and be content with their own truth, not try and change everyone else's.

Perhaps one can't change the views of the relatively few true zealots... but perhaps we can convince people that adopting extremes serves nobody's truth, only those with vested interests in their views.

[DigitalSkyline]

Originally Posted by TonyK

Ok for your information just so you don't go over board with this two Brits did it not Arabs it was on TV this morning

I don't know if anyone referred to them as arabs... muslims can be any race... the majority are arabic for sure but there are also Chaldean's and I'm sure many other Arabic people who don't practice islam at all...

Attacking mosques, that would be attacking their religion, not really a specific race or anything like that. I can't say that I condone that any more then I condone people attacking abortion clinics, but they did start all of this... and you reap what you sew.

They are foreign invaders, and have back room ideologies bent on destroying our civilization... it is self preservation, in a twisted sort of way. To not expect a backlash... well... come on...

[antic]

err... I don't think anyone can say who "started it". Read a bit of history... watch "The Power of Nightmares", a highly regarded documentary on the subject (look for it on BitTorrent). It's currently screening on SBS here in Oz.

Remember, Christians have also been bent on destroying other cultures in the past... US settlers distributed blankets contaminated with Small Pox to native indians to try and wipe them out... Australian colonists decimated the Aboriginal population... The Dutch have done their fair share, etc. etc. etc. throughout history.

Western cultures often don't even have religion or ideology to back those sorts of actions... merely the desire for resources and land. Careful when you start casting blame on another culture.. these things are very complex, and it can come hurtling right back at you.

As for us here in Oz, we also never lifted a finger to help in East Timor until recently... and guess what, we now have a deal with them for the oil in the East Timor Sea. Everyone has reasons for their actions or inaction. Who is faultless, without blame, collusion or culpability?

These things go waaaay back... believe me, there's no way forward but to accept the past, address the present and work for the future.

[antic]

And for what it's worth, I also don't believe there is such a thing as an "enemy" in this issue. How can an ideology be an enemy? You can't fight an ideology with weapons.

Think about it. It doesn't matter how many bombers, clerics or other fanatics we imprison. With an ideology, you can kill someone only to create a martyr, a symbol to rally the cause. With an ideology, you can kill the person without killing the "cancer". It is something beyond war, beyond weapons, beyond death.

We are only starting to learn how hard it is to defend against determined fanaticism. And it's not as simple as a political solution either. This stuff makes Sinn Féin look like the Oxford Boys' Choir.

So, how to fight the ideologies that give rise to violence? ahh.... hopefully we will soon start to tackle that issue. If we don't, then I fear that what we are seeing now is only the beginning. There are many ideologies that have long laid dormant - neo-nazism for one - who may find new inspiration from this kind of highly organised buchery.

The more we bury our heads in the sand, the more people will be buried with them.